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Dale Farm fate to be announced on Friday
THE fate of Europe's biggest illegal traveller site will be revealed on Friday.
High Court judge Mr Justice Andrew Collins will announce his long-awaited ruling over the evictions of hundreds of travellers from Dale Farm, Crays Hill and Hovefields, Wickford.
It is believed the court delayed the decision until after this month's local elections.
Meanwhile, the Rt Rev Thomas McMahon, bishop of Brentwood, and Rt Rev John Gladwin, the Bishop of Chelmsford are expected to visit the unauthorised "St Christopher's" community centre at Dale Farm also on Friday.
Father John Glenn, of Our Lady of Good Counsel Church, London Road, Wickford, blessed the building, which doubles up as a chapel, at Saturday's opening attended by the Equality and Human Rights Comm-
ission.
The row over why a £12,000 Government grant was released by Essex County Council for the project continues to escalate.
Danny Nandanwar, Bas-
ildon Labour councillor, is a trustee of Essex Racial Equality Council, which sponsored the project, yet was not informed of it.
Mr Nandanwar said: "I am concerned with strategy rather than the day-to-day running, but they are aware I am on the planning committee and should have alerted me. I would have advised them to try to get permission or look at alternatives."
John Dornan, Tory councillor, who lives in Oak Avenue, Crays Hill, has health and safety concerns.
He said: "In aerial pictures there was a small caravan wedged between the building and another caravan with a gas bottle. After the fire at the site, you have to be concerned for the safety of any children using the centre."
3:11pm Wednesday 7th May 2008
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CommentPosted by: Judge Vicar, Residing on 5:19pm Wed 7 May 08
"It is believed the court delayed the decision until after this month's local elections."
You have your answer right there, folks.
"It is believed the court delayed the decision until after this month's local elections."
You have your answer right there, folks.
Posted by: jj griggs, thundersley on 6:03pm Wed 7 May 08
Im afraid you may be right vicar...!
If the powers that be do allow the irish to stay at dale farm and reward them with retrospective planning , then this is a sad time for the english countryside.
What they will be saying is , there are no greenbelt laws just build whatever you desire and plead human rights.
This will set a very dangerous precedent for the whole of the country.
No person who lives next to or near open countryside will be able to live in peace without fear of this same situation happening to them.
I actually own a large plot of land in rayleigh and i was thinking of selling it, but i wont now as it will be a lot more profitable to me to plot it up and sell it on like that, which i intend to do after fridays decision.
The council can take me to court and i will employ the same solicitors as the irish.I will do it over a bank holiday weekend like they did in tessa jowells neighbourhood.
Im afraid you may be right vicar...!
If the powers that be do allow the irish to stay at dale farm and reward them with retrospective planning , then this is a sad time for the english countryside.
What they will be saying is , there are no greenbelt laws just build whatever you desire and plead human rights.
This will set a very dangerous precedent for the whole of the country.
No person who lives next to or near open countryside will be able to live in peace without fear of this same situation happening to them.
I actually own a large plot of land in rayleigh and i was thinking of selling it, but i wont now as it will be a lot more profitable to me to plot it up and sell it on like that, which i intend to do after fridays decision.
The council can take me to court and i will employ the same solicitors as the irish.I will do it over a bank holiday weekend like they did in tessa jowells neighbourhood.
Posted by: Kim Gandy, Rayleigh on 7:04pm Wed 7 May 08
re Friday - I won't hold my breath.
JJ if you are not an Irish traveller, or any other kind of minority, it won't work mate.
Believe me. You will be subject to the full rigours of the law, PARTICULARLY if you are English.
Be warned. I'm deadly serious.
However, if you are into a bit of people trafficking, growing cannabis in poly tunnels or regenerating the slave trade, you should be OK.
re Friday - I won't hold my breath.
JJ if you are not an Irish traveller, or any other kind of minority, it won't work mate.
Believe me. You will be subject to the full rigours of the law, PARTICULARLY if you are English.
Be warned. I'm deadly serious.
However, if you are into a bit of people trafficking, growing cannabis in poly tunnels or regenerating the slave trade, you should be OK.
Posted by: jj griggs, thundersley on 7:52pm Wed 7 May 08
I fully understand what you are saying kim, but i have studied the law and if i get the bases down and the caravans sited before they can serve me with a writ i will be home and dry.It will be done over a bank holiday weekend to give us more time and first thing tuesday morning apply for retrospective planning that nullifies the writ.Thats when i sell to the irish and let them take over with the human rights act.
I fully understand what you are saying kim, but i have studied the law and if i get the bases down and the caravans sited before they can serve me with a writ i will be home and dry.It will be done over a bank holiday weekend to give us more time and first thing tuesday morning apply for retrospective planning that nullifies the writ.Thats when i sell to the irish and let them take over with the human rights act.
Posted by: evilc, essex on 9:09pm Wed 7 May 08
They are ALL worm under carriage slime!!
They are ALL worm under carriage slime!!
Posted by: OUTRAGED, Pitsea on 9:11pm Wed 7 May 08
Charming!! What a guy.Let's hope nothing like this ever happens to you not.............
Charming!! What a guy.Let's hope nothing like this ever happens to you not.............
Posted by: knobby, billericay on 11:07pm Wed 7 May 08
If this judgement is found for the Itinerants, then I hope somebody organizes a protest so all of S.E.Essex can voice their disgust.
If this judgement is found for the Itinerants, then I hope somebody organizes a protest so all of S.E.Essex can voice their disgust.
Posted by: Vange, Vange on 11:51pm Wed 7 May 08
Ding Ding...round 1200th....no doubt another round of appeals will be made. My fingers are crossed the right judgement is made for the local tax paying resident
Ding Ding...round 1200th....no doubt another round of appeals will be made. My fingers are crossed the right judgement is made for the local tax paying resident
Posted by: Lisa Jensen, Southend on 6:21am Thu 8 May 08
Bunch of sodding bigots.
Good luck to you all, everyone deserves a roof over there heads!
Bunch of sodding bigots.
Good luck to you all, everyone deserves a roof over there heads!
Posted by: Andrew, Shoeburyness on 6:56am Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Lisa Jensen[/bold] wrote:
Bunch of sodding bigots.
Good luck to you all, everyone deserves a roof over there heads![/quote] [bold]Well if they are evicted maybe you'll offer up [italic]your[/italic] back garden for them to park up in.
You can even cut out the taxman and benefits office and just give them all your money. Then you can watch them laugh all the way back to their homes in Rathkeale, County Limerick, Eire.[/bold]
Lisa Jensen wrote:
Bunch of sodding bigots.
Good luck to you all, everyone deserves a roof over there heads!
Well if they are evicted maybe you'll offer up your back garden for them to park up in.
You can even cut out the taxman and benefits office and just give them all your money. Then you can watch them laugh all the way back to their homes in Rathkeale, County Limerick, Eire. Posted by: jj griggs, thundersley on 7:57am Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Lisa Jensen[/bold] wrote:
Bunch of sodding bigots. Good luck to you all, everyone deserves a roof over there heads![/quote] They have roofs over their heads in rathkeale you gullible fool of a person.
And as for bigots you stupid tart you dont know what your talking about.
Lisa Jensen wrote:
Bunch of sodding bigots. Good luck to you all, everyone deserves a roof over there heads!
They have roofs over their heads in rathkeale you gullible fool of a person.
And as for bigots you stupid tart you dont know what your talking about.
Posted by: Sherry on 8:55am Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Lisa Jensen[/bold] wrote:
Bunch of sodding bigots. Good luck to you all, everyone deserves a roof over there heads![/quote] Good luck?, i'm sorry but i don't understand you Lisa, why do you wish them luck, they certainly don't need it. Wish your luck on people who have genuinely lost their homes that are living in bedsits, those that can't keep up the mortgage re-payments because of crippling costs of everyday living. This lot at Dale farm will always be alright, they don't need the likes of you to fight their corner.
Lisa Jensen wrote:
Bunch of sodding bigots. Good luck to you all, everyone deserves a roof over there heads!
Good luck?, i'm sorry but i don't understand you Lisa, why do you wish them luck, they certainly don't need it. Wish your luck on people who have genuinely lost their homes that are living in bedsits, those that can't keep up the mortgage re-payments because of crippling costs of everyday living. This lot at Dale farm will always be alright, they don't need the likes of you to fight their corner.
Posted by: Rob, Suffolk on 12:02pm Thu 8 May 08
Well said Lisa, I wonder how many of these lovely folks waxing lyrical about how terrible travellers are have actually spoken to any from that community.
I know people at Dale Farm, some of them are a bit rough around the edges but generally they’re good people trying to get by like anyone else.
They bought that ex-scrap yard because Michael Howard told them they’d be able to settle it when he took away their caravan sites – it’s hardly their fault that he lied, and if they get permission now, it'll be justice.
Well said Lisa, I wonder how many of these lovely folks waxing lyrical about how terrible travellers are have actually spoken to any from that community.
I know people at Dale Farm, some of them are a bit rough around the edges but generally they’re good people trying to get by like anyone else.
They bought that ex-scrap yard because Michael Howard told them they’d be able to settle it when he took away their caravan sites – it’s hardly their fault that he lied, and if they get permission now, it'll be justice.
Posted by: Dave, Essex on 12:22pm Thu 8 May 08
They live there illegally, get rid of the benefit taking, tax dodging scum bags, go back to where you come from.
They live there illegally, get rid of the benefit taking, tax dodging scum bags, go back to where you come from.
Posted by: MRS CY NICLE, Crays Hill but WORKING in London on 12:37pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Lisa Jensen[/bold] wrote:
Bunch of sodding bigots. Good luck to you all, everyone deserves a roof over there heads![/quote] Lisa - are you mad or just plain stupid?
Lisa Jensen wrote:
Bunch of sodding bigots. Good luck to you all, everyone deserves a roof over there heads!
Lisa - are you mad or just plain stupid?
Posted by: Rob, Ipswich on 1:38pm Thu 8 May 08
Mrs NICLE, are you actually WORKING or are you simply posting abuse on the internet?
I'd also like to know the definition of 'illegal' here, given that it's under judicial review?
Not only do they own the land, they have [italic]tried[/italic] to pay their taxes, despite not getting any council services - they had their cheques returned to them. And a friendly warning - accusing them of tax avoidance without evidence is libellous.
NB// Also, why should travellers be denied benfits when settled people aren't? Would you prefer they starve?
Mrs NICLE, are you actually WORKING or are you simply posting abuse on the internet?
I'd also like to know the definition of 'illegal' here, given that it's under judicial review?
Not only do they own the land, they have
tried to pay their taxes, despite not getting any council services - they had their cheques returned to them. And a friendly warning - accusing them of tax avoidance without evidence is libellous.
NB// Also, why should travellers be denied benfits when settled people aren't? Would you prefer they starve?
Posted by: Rob, Ipswich on 1:41pm Thu 8 May 08
Mrs NICLE, are you actually WORKING or are you simply posting abuse on the internet?
I'd also like to know the definition of 'illegal' here, given that it's under judicial review?
Not only do they own the land, they have [italic]tried[/italic] to pay their taxes, despite not getting any council services - they had their cheques returned to them. And a friendly warning - accusing them of tax avoidance without evidence is libellous.
NB// Also, why should travellers be denied benfits when settled people aren't? Would you prefer they starve?
Mrs NICLE, are you actually WORKING or are you simply posting abuse on the internet?
I'd also like to know the definition of 'illegal' here, given that it's under judicial review?
Not only do they own the land, they have
tried to pay their taxes, despite not getting any council services - they had their cheques returned to them. And a friendly warning - accusing them of tax avoidance without evidence is libellous.
NB// Also, why should travellers be denied benfits when settled people aren't? Would you prefer they starve?
Posted by: GRILLO HUNTER on 2:12pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Rob[/bold] wrote:
Mrs NICLE, are you actually WORKING or are you simply posting abuse on the internet? I'd also like to know the definition of 'illegal' here, given that it's under judicial review? Not only do they own the land, they have [italic]tried[/italic] to pay their taxes, despite not getting any council services - they had their cheques returned to them. And a friendly warning - accusing them of tax avoidance without evidence is libellous. NB// Also, why should travellers be denied benfits when settled people aren't? Would you prefer they starve?[/quote] Rob, are you actually from Ipswich?
You sound very much like our old friend Grillo to me.
YAWN............
Rob wrote:
Mrs NICLE, are you actually WORKING or are you simply posting abuse on the internet? I'd also like to know the definition of 'illegal' here, given that it's under judicial review? Not only do they own the land, they have tried to pay their taxes, despite not getting any council services - they had their cheques returned to them. And a friendly warning - accusing them of tax avoidance without evidence is libellous. NB// Also, why should travellers be denied benfits when settled people aren't? Would you prefer they starve?
Rob, are you actually from Ipswich?
You sound very much like our old friend Grillo to me.
YAWN............
Posted by: Rob, Ipswich on 2:24pm Thu 8 May 08
Yes I’m from Ipswich, I am as I write mere metres from the Orwell in fact. I have no idea who ‘Grillo’ is. Now, rather than questioning my identity, you could more usefully tackle the points I raise…
Yes I’m from Ipswich, I am as I write mere metres from the Orwell in fact. I have no idea who ‘Grillo’ is. Now, rather than questioning my identity, you could more usefully tackle the points I raise…
Posted by: GRILLO HUNTER on 2:31pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Rob[/bold] wrote:
Yes I’m from Ipswich, I am as I write mere metres from the Orwell in fact. I have no idea who ‘Grillo’ is. Now, rather than questioning my identity, you could more usefully tackle the points I raise…[/quote] Then you should not concern yourself as to whether people are WORKING or not.
That has nothing to do with the points raised to here either...
Rob wrote:
Yes I’m from Ipswich, I am as I write mere metres from the Orwell in fact. I have no idea who ‘Grillo’ is. Now, rather than questioning my identity, you could more usefully tackle the points I raise…
Then you should not concern yourself as to whether people are WORKING or not.
That has nothing to do with the points raised to here either...
Posted by: Rob, Ipswich on 2:52pm Thu 8 May 08
I apologise, I thought it was clear I was mocking the contentless invective of her post in a similar way to pointing out you should be dealing with the points raised – I try not to say the same thing twice.
Next time though I’ll try and keep it simple, just for you.
I apologise, I thought it was clear I was mocking the contentless invective of her post in a similar way to pointing out you should be dealing with the points raised – I try not to say the same thing twice.
Next time though I’ll try and keep it simple, just for you.
Posted by: Vernon, Basildon on 3:57pm Thu 8 May 08
[bold]Not only do they own the land, they have tried to pay their taxes, despite not getting any council services - they had their cheques returned to them. And a friendly warning - accusing them of tax avoidance without evidence is libellous.[/bold]
Rob, they get the same council services as everyone else who pays Council Tax!
Just because they own the land, does not give them the right to develop it illegally, and perhaps you should ponder how single mothers on benefit have paid many thousands of pounds to buy these plots
Not only do they own the land, they have tried to pay their taxes, despite not getting any council services - they had their cheques returned to them. And a friendly warning - accusing them of tax avoidance without evidence is libellous.
Rob, they get the same council services as everyone else who pays Council Tax!
Just because they own the land, does not give them the right to develop it illegally, and perhaps you should ponder how single mothers on benefit have paid many thousands of pounds to buy these plots
Posted by: Rob, Ipswich on 4:52pm Thu 8 May 08
They certainly do miss out on services, though I think they do get schooling which may be what you’re talking about.
It’s crass bigotry to talk about ‘single mums on benefit’ buying those plots. If you’d ever taken the time to ask, you’d have found out that money for the land was raised by one of the original families after a particularly successful period of trading in antique Welsh furniture. They then split the land up into a series of plots which got passed on.
Contrary to popular myth, not everyone at Dale Farm is unemployed, many are active traders who shift goods right across Europe.
They certainly do miss out on services, though I think they do get schooling which may be what you’re talking about.
It’s crass bigotry to talk about ‘single mums on benefit’ buying those plots. If you’d ever taken the time to ask, you’d have found out that money for the land was raised by one of the original families after a particularly successful period of trading in antique Welsh furniture. They then split the land up into a series of plots which got passed on.
Contrary to popular myth, not everyone at Dale Farm is unemployed, many are active traders who shift goods right across Europe.
Posted by: mike b, Billericay on 4:53pm Thu 8 May 08
There seems to be some misunderstanding about the possible outcomes of the high court hearing tomorrow.
The Judge cannot grant planning consent.
The Judicial Review was about whether Basildon Council had fully considered all the consequences of it's decision to take direct action in response to the breach of planning law.
If Basildon's process was incorrect,they'll need to put right any defect before anything else happens.
There seems to be some misunderstanding about the possible outcomes of the high court hearing tomorrow.
The Judge cannot grant planning consent.
The Judicial Review was about whether Basildon Council had fully considered all the consequences of it's decision to take direct action in response to the breach of planning law.
If Basildon's process was incorrect,they'll need to put right any defect before anything else happens.
Posted by: knobby, billericay on 7:45pm Thu 8 May 08
Don't you ever read whats been going on with these Irish Scroungers. It's well documented you know, as well as first hand accounts. Do you really condone the social abuse, the illegal development of land, the anti-social behaviour, the violence, the guns, the drugs, the sofas and benefit fraud etc, etc.
How about a little support for the local population that have to put up with these outcasts.
They have homes but they are here to play the system and I hope, for all our sakes, that their days are numbered.
Mind you, who would bet against Basildon Council getting it right first time.
It's been said before, their Irish Law would not let them get away with it, so they come here. Doesn't that tell you something?
Don't you ever read whats been going on with these Irish Scroungers. It's well documented you know, as well as first hand accounts. Do you really condone the social abuse, the illegal development of land, the anti-social behaviour, the violence, the guns, the drugs, the sofas and benefit fraud etc, etc.
How about a little support for the local population that have to put up with these outcasts.
They have homes but they are here to play the system and I hope, for all our sakes, that their days are numbered.
Mind you, who would bet against Basildon Council getting it right first time.
It's been said before, their Irish Law would not let them get away with it, so they come here. Doesn't that tell you something?
Posted by: Vernon, Basildon on 8:38pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Rob[/bold] wrote:
They certainly do miss out on services, though I think they do get schooling which may be what you’re talking about. It’s crass bigotry to talk about ‘single mums on benefit’ buying those plots. If you’d ever taken the time to ask, you’d have found out that money for the land was raised by one of the original families after a particularly successful period of trading in antique Welsh furniture. They then split the land up into a series of plots which got passed on. Contrary to popular myth, not everyone at Dale Farm is unemployed, many are active traders who shift goods right across Europe. [/quote] Rob
What services do they miss out on?
If you had taken the time to 'ask' you would have known that the land was split and and sold on in small plots to other travellers.Its not 'crass bigotry' to talk about single mothers on benefits buying these plots, its a fact that most of the illegal plots are occupied, supposedly, by single mothers claiming benefits.If you wish more proof, Basildon Council has a planning website where you can access all the facts.Facts that were actually given by these travellers themselves, and not the hearsay of locals or over eager journalists.
Why would you believe that anyone thinks that everyone on Dale Farm is unemployed?I don't think anyone believes that, and there lies the problem.Apart from the disproportinate amount of single mums on benefit,there is also, undoubtedly a lot of tax evasion going on, and no I don't have proof of that!Most level headed people who address traveller issues want equality.Either we say everyone has to pay income tax, or we abolish it and 'pay as you go'for health,education and everything else income tax goes to.I know what world I'd rather live in!
Rob wrote:
They certainly do miss out on services, though I think they do get schooling which may be what you’re talking about. It’s crass bigotry to talk about ‘single mums on benefit’ buying those plots. If you’d ever taken the time to ask, you’d have found out that money for the land was raised by one of the original families after a particularly successful period of trading in antique Welsh furniture. They then split the land up into a series of plots which got passed on. Contrary to popular myth, not everyone at Dale Farm is unemployed, many are active traders who shift goods right across Europe.
Rob
What services do they miss out on?
If you had taken the time to 'ask' you would have known that the land was split and and sold on in small plots to other travellers.Its not 'crass bigotry' to talk about single mothers on benefits buying these plots, its a fact that most of the illegal plots are occupied, supposedly, by single mothers claiming benefits.If you wish more proof, Basildon Council has a planning website where you can access all the facts.Facts that were actually given by these travellers themselves, and not the hearsay of locals or over eager journalists.
Why would you believe that anyone thinks that everyone on Dale Farm is unemployed?I don't think anyone believes that, and there lies the problem.Apart from the disproportinate amount of single mums on benefit,there is also, undoubtedly a lot of tax evasion going on, and no I don't have proof of that!Most level headed people who address traveller issues want equality.Either we say everyone has to pay income tax, or we abolish it and 'pay as you go'for health,education and everything else income tax goes to.I know what world I'd rather live in!
Posted by: CaptGuvnor, Sarpend, Greater Loondon on 9:05pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Lisa Jensen[/bold] wrote:
Bunch of sodding bigots. Good luck to you all, everyone deserves a roof over there heads![/quote] The main point here is if you let anyone, whether they be so called travellers or ordinary Jo Public to totally ignore the laws of the land then you're heading for disaster
Some laws are daft but most are put into place for good reason and intent and every society must have some order whether you like it or not otherwise they'll be anarchy
Lisa Jensen wrote:
Bunch of sodding bigots. Good luck to you all, everyone deserves a roof over there heads!
The main point here is if you let anyone, whether they be so called travellers or ordinary Jo Public to totally ignore the laws of the land then you're heading for disaster
Some laws are daft but most are put into place for good reason and intent and every society must have some order whether you like it or not otherwise they'll be anarchy
Posted by: A Resident on 10:09pm Thu 8 May 08
Well said everyone except Rob & Lisa
Well said everyone except Rob & Lisa
Posted by: Grillo Hunter on 4:49am Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]GRILLO HUNTER[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Rob[/bold] wrote: Yes I’m from Ipswich, I am as I write mere metres from the Orwell in fact. I have no idea who ‘Grillo’ is. Now, rather than questioning my identity, you could more usefully tackle the points I raise…[/quote] Then you should not concern yourself as to whether people are WORKING or not. That has nothing to do with the points raised to here either...[/quote] GRILLO
GRILLO HUNTER wrote:
Rob wrote: Yes I’m from Ipswich, I am as I write mere metres from the Orwell in fact. I have no idea who ‘Grillo’ is. Now, rather than questioning my identity, you could more usefully tackle the points I raise…
Then you should not concern yourself as to whether people are WORKING or not. That has nothing to do with the points raised to here either...
GRILLO
Posted by: Local Man, Crays Hill on 7:28pm Fri 9 May 08
I live a short distance from the site and have regular contact in one form or another with the residents of Dale Farm. I would not suggest that all are fraudulently claiming benefits or that all are not but there are planning rules in place and these people have not adhered to them. The amount of people on the site is disproportional to the amount of people in the area and basildon district already provide considerably more sites that surrounding areas..
I live a short distance from the site and have regular contact in one form or another with the residents of Dale Farm. I would not suggest that all are fraudulently claiming benefits or that all are not but there are planning rules in place and these people have not adhered to them. The amount of people on the site is disproportional to the amount of people in the area and basildon district already provide considerably more sites that surrounding areas..
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