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John Lewis list: How your MP voted
MPs were facing further outrage over their expenses regime after they rejected calls for the abolition of the "John Lewis list" and independent scrutiny of their claims.
Basildon Labour MP Angela Smith and Southend West Tory MP David Amess voted to retain the £24,000-a-year budget to kit out second homes.
James Duddridge (Con, Rochford and Southend East), Mark Francois (Con, Rayleigh), Andrew Mackinlay (Lab, Thurrock) and John Baron (Con, Billericay) did not vote.
Bon Spink, UKIP MP for Castle Point, voted in both lobbies in effect voting twice. Mr Spink says this is the only way to abstain from a vote.
The House of Commons vote also killed off moves to subject their allowances to external audits following recent scandals.
But MPs approved a new programme to get bigger and better constituency offices at an additional cost to the taxpayer of up to £3.2 million every year.
The package retaining the so-called "John Lewis list" of household items and property improvements was backed mainly by Labour MPs.
They included 33 ministers, including Home Secretary Jacqui Smith, Culture Secretary Andy Burnham and Housing Minister Caroline Flint.
But more than half of MPs - including Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Chancellor Alistair Darling - stayed away from the Commons for the contentious vote.
It marked the culmination of a "root and branch" review undertaken by a top Commons committee after the scope for abuse of the £90 million allowances regime was laid bare earlier this year.
Many MPs chastised their colleagues for retaining the "John Lewis list" which has exposed Parliamentarians to endless ridicule and hostility in recent months.
8:32am Friday 4th July 2008
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CommentPosted by: ShipShape, Basildonk on 8:56am Fri 4 Jul 08
Snouts in the troughs, two legs good four bad and all that stuff, eh?
With all the financial worries that people are having right now, I don't know how you grasping toads can look your constituants in the eye.
Snouts in the troughs, two legs good four bad and all that stuff, eh?
With all the financial worries that people are having right now, I don't know how you grasping toads can look your constituants in the eye.
Posted by: Nigel on 9:00am Fri 4 Jul 08
Sleaze is endemic and institutionalised in the House of Commons.
The rest of us are reluctant to claim any expenses whatsoever, even a taxi home after late working, as we have to go through an exhaustive process before expenses will be accepted. Established "perks" such as company cars, and private health (which is not a perk but essential given the collapse of the NHS under Labour) are taxed.
Surely, MP's allowances should at the very least be treated as perks and taxed at 40%, as should ministerial cars.
Sleaze is endemic and institutionalised in the House of Commons.
The rest of us are reluctant to claim any expenses whatsoever, even a taxi home after late working, as we have to go through an exhaustive process before expenses will be accepted. Established "perks" such as company cars, and private health (which is not a perk but essential given the collapse of the NHS under Labour) are taxed.
Surely, MP's allowances should at the very least be treated as perks and taxed at 40%, as should ministerial cars.
Posted by: ddt, Thundersley on 9:19am Fri 4 Jul 08
I agree that they should have this , however means test them!! lets find out how much they are earning from sitting on boards of other companies etc They do it to us so the rules should apply to them!!
I agree that they should have this , however means test them!! lets find out how much they are earning from sitting on boards of other companies etc They do it to us so the rules should apply to them!!
Posted by: Wolfie on 9:47am Fri 4 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Nigel[/bold] wrote:
Sleaze is endemic and institutionalised in the House of Commons. The rest of us are reluctant to claim any expenses whatsoever, even a taxi home after late working, as we have to go through an exhaustive process before expenses will be accepted. Established \"perks\" such as company cars, and private health (which is not a perk but essential given the collapse of the NHS under Labour) are taxed. Surely, MP\'s allowances should at the very least be treated as perks and taxed at 40%, as should ministerial cars.[/quote] I believe this is typical egosentric capitalistic comment.
I'm proud of our NHS system we have in this country and would contribute more out of my wages to up its standards like France has done. However I believe its nice to know that working class people who have upgraded themselves to middle class are now feeling the brunt of the global economic situation and with a smile can only feel sorry for them having negative equity on there homes, stuggling to pay for there expensive cars, etc etc etc.
Govenment do what Govenment do and have always done so since Cromwell.
Once all "can't rock the boat type" realise that the British public can only be pushed so far then that is when I believe a well deserved national Strike will begin. However I believe this will never happen as I believe Govenment has left this small little Island of ours stranded in the global economic mire and I believe we will be there for a very very long time to come.
Nigel wrote:
Sleaze is endemic and institutionalised in the House of Commons. The rest of us are reluctant to claim any expenses whatsoever, even a taxi home after late working, as we have to go through an exhaustive process before expenses will be accepted. Established \"perks\" such as company cars, and private health (which is not a perk but essential given the collapse of the NHS under Labour) are taxed. Surely, MP\'s allowances should at the very least be treated as perks and taxed at 40%, as should ministerial cars.
I believe this is typical egosentric capitalistic comment.
I'm proud of our NHS system we have in this country and would contribute more out of my wages to up its standards like France has done. However I believe its nice to know that working class people who have upgraded themselves to middle class are now feeling the brunt of the global economic situation and with a smile can only feel sorry for them having negative equity on there homes, stuggling to pay for there expensive cars, etc etc etc.
Govenment do what Govenment do and have always done so since Cromwell.
Once all "can't rock the boat type" realise that the British public can only be pushed so far then that is when I believe a well deserved national Strike will begin. However I believe this will never happen as I believe Govenment has left this small little Island of ours stranded in the global economic mire and I believe we will be there for a very very long time to come.
Posted by: Nigel on 10:00am Fri 4 Jul 08
So you are proud of our NHS?
We are now one of the most highly taxed countries and yet the NHS, like education, is in freefall. My wife needed a doctor last night and yet our surgery closed at 6.00!! Emergency doctors only want to know if you are at death's door.
Try getting an NHS dentist.
Our hospitals are no longer clean.
If you think this is value for money, that is up to you, but Labour charged us all a tax rise (called National Insurance) of 1% on our entire salary/wages, and raided our pensions, as well as putting up taxes in general year after year, and yet, there has been no improvement, only continuing and quickening decline.
I for one would not pay one penny more on top of what I already do for the NHS until there is a total overhaul so that it provides value for money and service where and when I want.
So you are proud of our NHS?
We are now one of the most highly taxed countries and yet the NHS, like education, is in freefall. My wife needed a doctor last night and yet our surgery closed at 6.00!! Emergency doctors only want to know if you are at death's door.
Try getting an NHS dentist.
Our hospitals are no longer clean.
If you think this is value for money, that is up to you, but Labour charged us all a tax rise (called National Insurance) of 1% on our entire salary/wages, and raided our pensions, as well as putting up taxes in general year after year, and yet, there has been no improvement, only continuing and quickening decline.
I for one would not pay one penny more on top of what I already do for the NHS until there is a total overhaul so that it provides value for money and service where and when I want.
Posted by: MoanMoanMoan, Southend on 10:04am Fri 4 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Nigel[/bold] wrote:
So you are proud of our NHS?
We are now one of the most highly taxed countries and yet the NHS, like education, is in freefall. My wife needed a doctor last night and yet our surgery closed at 6.00!! Emergency doctors only want to know if you are at death's door.
Try getting an NHS dentist.
Our hospitals are no longer clean.
If you think this is value for money, that is up to you, but Labour charged us all a tax rise (called National Insurance) of 1% on our entire salary/wages, and raided our pensions, as well as putting up taxes in general year after year, and yet, there has been no improvement, only continuing and quickening decline.
I for one would not pay one penny more on top of what I already do for the NHS until there is a total overhaul so that it provides value for money and service where and when I want.[/quote] The vast majority of people in this country value the NHS because it means that whatever your background, you can access equal treatment at the point of need. To say that it hasnt improved in the last 11 years is way off the mark as the Healthcare Commision said, "there has been wide ranging improvements in a number of areas", waiting times are down and only a tiny number of epeople actually get superbugs; that is just the media stirring it up
Nigel wrote:
So you are proud of our NHS?
We are now one of the most highly taxed countries and yet the NHS, like education, is in freefall. My wife needed a doctor last night and yet our surgery closed at 6.00!! Emergency doctors only want to know if you are at death's door.
Try getting an NHS dentist.
Our hospitals are no longer clean.
If you think this is value for money, that is up to you, but Labour charged us all a tax rise (called National Insurance) of 1% on our entire salary/wages, and raided our pensions, as well as putting up taxes in general year after year, and yet, there has been no improvement, only continuing and quickening decline.
I for one would not pay one penny more on top of what I already do for the NHS until there is a total overhaul so that it provides value for money and service where and when I want.
The vast majority of people in this country value the NHS because it means that whatever your background, you can access equal treatment at the point of need. To say that it hasnt improved in the last 11 years is way off the mark as the Healthcare Commision said, "there has been wide ranging improvements in a number of areas", waiting times are down and only a tiny number of epeople actually get superbugs; that is just the media stirring it up
Posted by: The Vicar, Basildon on 10:05am Fri 4 Jul 08
"Oink Oink!" said the Champagne Socialist.
"Oink Oink!" said the Champagne Socialist.
Posted by: Nigel on 10:19am Fri 4 Jul 08
MoanMoanMoan,
If you like to think that the NHS has improved, that is your right. Labour thinks that if it spouts that message long and loud enough, people will believe it, and until Gordon Brown's disintegration, they did, but the scales have fallen from people's eyes (except yours) and they can now see that the past 11 years have been an elaborate and expensive con trick.
"24 hours to save the NHS?" It's 100,000 hours since those immortal words were uttered, and we're still waiting.
MoanMoanMoan,
If you like to think that the NHS has improved, that is your right. Labour thinks that if it spouts that message long and loud enough, people will believe it, and until Gordon Brown's disintegration, they did, but the scales have fallen from people's eyes (except yours) and they can now see that the past 11 years have been an elaborate and expensive con trick.
"24 hours to save the NHS?" It's 100,000 hours since those immortal words were uttered, and we're still waiting.
Posted by: wolfie on 10:21am Fri 4 Jul 08
I reiterate my last comments and theres no point in continuing.
I reiterate my last comments and theres no point in continuing.
Posted by: Ian, Leigh-on-Sea on 10:37am Fri 4 Jul 08
I voted for David Amess last time, but I've been so disappointed with his voting record. He voted for exempting MPs from the Freedom of Information Act, and now he's voted for keeping MP's expense arrangement (against his party leadership). He won't get my vote again.
I voted for David Amess last time, but I've been so disappointed with his voting record. He voted for exempting MPs from the Freedom of Information Act, and now he's voted for keeping MP's expense arrangement (against his party leadership). He won't get my vote again.
Posted by: martin, basildon on 10:38am Fri 4 Jul 08
Can Angel Smith tell me why she has to have 24,000 expenses to kit out a second home when she lives in Basildon which is in travelling distance
to London, which most working people do daily. We have all got to watch our spending so why can't she?
Can Angel Smith tell me why she has to have 24,000 expenses to kit out a second home when she lives in Basildon which is in travelling distance
to London, which most working people do daily. We have all got to watch our spending so why can't she?
Posted by: Gary, Basildon on 10:43am Fri 4 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Nigel[/bold] wrote:
MoanMoanMoan, If you like to think that the NHS has improved, that is your right. Labour thinks that if it spouts that message long and loud enough, people will believe it, and until Gordon Brown\'s disintegration, they did, but the scales have fallen from people\'s eyes (except yours) and they can now see that the past 11 years have been an elaborate and expensive con trick. \"24 hours to save the NHS?\" It\'s 100,000 hours since those immortal words were uttered, and we\'re still waiting.[/quote] Well my wife is a Nurse and see the results at the front line. Has no political bias and tells me that there has been much improvement in the last 10 years.
We always hear the bad stories, but never the good ones as they don't make good press. Millions are treated every day on the NHS with a vast majority happy with the service.
We do however need to look at more government funded car home for teh elderly as there are many beds taken up in a hospital by elderly patients that are well enough to go home, but still need care.
As for your wife not being able to see a GP at 6pm last night, maybe you should look at what teh Labour government are trying to proceed with in larger GP heath clinics that will have as part of its make up much longer opening times. These clinics are opposed by the Tories.
Nigel wrote:
MoanMoanMoan, If you like to think that the NHS has improved, that is your right. Labour thinks that if it spouts that message long and loud enough, people will believe it, and until Gordon Brown\'s disintegration, they did, but the scales have fallen from people\'s eyes (except yours) and they can now see that the past 11 years have been an elaborate and expensive con trick. \"24 hours to save the NHS?\" It\'s 100,000 hours since those immortal words were uttered, and we\'re still waiting.
Well my wife is a Nurse and see the results at the front line. Has no political bias and tells me that there has been much improvement in the last 10 years.
We always hear the bad stories, but never the good ones as they don't make good press. Millions are treated every day on the NHS with a vast majority happy with the service.
We do however need to look at more government funded car home for teh elderly as there are many beds taken up in a hospital by elderly patients that are well enough to go home, but still need care.
As for your wife not being able to see a GP at 6pm last night, maybe you should look at what teh Labour government are trying to proceed with in larger GP heath clinics that will have as part of its make up much longer opening times. These clinics are opposed by the Tories.
Posted by: Peter Pantsless, Southend-on-Sea on 10:48am Fri 4 Jul 08
No surprise to see David Amess in favour of retaining the £24k budget!
(Wouldnt expect anything less of the man!)
Wouldnt be a surprise either if Garston, Waite, Lamb and crew start a lobby for the budget to be available for councillors too, not just MP's !!!!
Oops, i hope i havent just given them an idea!
No surprise to see David Amess in favour of retaining the £24k budget!
(Wouldnt expect anything less of the man!)
Wouldnt be a surprise either if Garston, Waite, Lamb and crew start a lobby for the budget to be available for councillors too, not just MP's !!!!
Oops, i hope i havent just given them an idea!
Posted by: Andrew, North Shoebury on 12:14pm Fri 4 Jul 08
Is it any wonder that people have lost all confidence in politicians from all parties. We are in the middle of a financial downturn but MP's (and councillors as well) like to keep their snouts in the trough. The taxpayer is being taken for a ride and those that did not vote or abstained what are they trying to prove? It's a shame that democracy in this country means that our politicians feel they can ignore public opinion and do as they please. I feel a boycott of elections by voters would demonstrate peoples rejection of this morally corrupt system.
Is it any wonder that people have lost all confidence in politicians from all parties. We are in the middle of a financial downturn but MP's (and councillors as well) like to keep their snouts in the trough. The taxpayer is being taken for a ride and those that did not vote or abstained what are they trying to prove? It's a shame that democracy in this country means that our politicians feel they can ignore public opinion and do as they please. I feel a boycott of elections by voters would demonstrate peoples rejection of this morally corrupt system.
Posted by: Kate, Billericay on 12:21pm Fri 4 Jul 08
[quote][bold]martin[/bold] wrote:
Can Angel Smith tell me why she has to have 24,000 expenses to kit out a second home when she lives in Basildon which is in travelling distance to London, which most working people do daily. We have all got to watch our spending so why can't she?[/quote] Same goes for John Baron. Perhaps they should pop down to the local train stations and pick up tips from normal people (constituents) who commute EVERY DAY - and who don't get about 20 weeks off from going to their office (ie House of Commons). Always supposing that they can be bothered to turn up for debates, votes etc.....
martin wrote:
Can Angel Smith tell me why she has to have 24,000 expenses to kit out a second home when she lives in Basildon which is in travelling distance to London, which most working people do daily. We have all got to watch our spending so why can't she?
Same goes for John Baron. Perhaps they should pop down to the local train stations and pick up tips from normal people (constituents) who commute EVERY DAY - and who don't get about 20 weeks off from going to their office (ie House of Commons). Always supposing that they can be bothered to turn up for debates, votes etc.....
Posted by: The Vicar, Basildon on 12:46pm Fri 4 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Andrew[/bold] wrote:
Is it any wonder that people have lost all confidence in politicians from all parties. We are in the middle of a financial downturn but MP's (and councillors as well) like to keep their snouts in the trough. The taxpayer is being taken for a ride and those that did not vote or abstained what are they trying to prove? It's a shame that democracy in this country means that our politicians feel they can ignore public opinion and do as they please. I feel a boycott of elections by voters would demonstrate peoples rejection of this morally corrupt system. [/quote] All that would achieve would be to keep Labour in power forever.
What a thought.
Even Stephen King couldn't think up a premise that horrific!
Andrew wrote:
Is it any wonder that people have lost all confidence in politicians from all parties. We are in the middle of a financial downturn but MP's (and councillors as well) like to keep their snouts in the trough. The taxpayer is being taken for a ride and those that did not vote or abstained what are they trying to prove? It's a shame that democracy in this country means that our politicians feel they can ignore public opinion and do as they please. I feel a boycott of elections by voters would demonstrate peoples rejection of this morally corrupt system.
All that would achieve would be to keep Labour in power forever.
What a thought.
Even Stephen King couldn't think up a premise that horrific!
Posted by: Gary, Basildon on 12:53pm Fri 4 Jul 08
The problem with all this is that teh replacement option was still flawed and open to easy abuse. Which could be the reason why some still voted to retain the current one, keeping it only until a better alternative is designed.
The problem with all this is that teh replacement option was still flawed and open to easy abuse. Which could be the reason why some still voted to retain the current one, keeping it only until a better alternative is designed.
Posted by: scottie, southend on 7:16pm Fri 4 Jul 08
All current MPs should form the string section of the House of Commons Symphony Orchestra - they are the best FIDDLERS in the UK.
Just because some of our money grabbing MPs did not vote - I bet they will still accept the £24k plus expenses available.
Does Amesses's kitchen need doing every year.
They are all within an hours train ride from work so do they really need another property. Whats wrong with the YHA
All current MPs should form the string section of the House of Commons Symphony Orchestra - they are the best FIDDLERS in the UK.
Just because some of our money grabbing MPs did not vote - I bet they will still accept the £24k plus expenses available.
Does Amesses's kitchen need doing every year.
They are all within an hours train ride from work so do they really need another property. Whats wrong with the YHA
Posted by: Tony Winchester, Wos on 8:01pm Fri 4 Jul 08
Next year they all need replacing with some one that cares about the public.
Next year they all need replacing with some one that cares about the public.
Posted by: Dave the Rave, Essex on 8:34pm Fri 4 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Gary[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Nigel[/bold] wrote:
MoanMoanMoan, If you like to think that the NHS has improved, that is your right. Labour thinks that if it spouts that message long and loud enough, people will believe it, and until Gordon Brown\\\'s disintegration, they did, but the scales have fallen from people\\\'s eyes (except yours) and they can now see that the past 11 years have been an elaborate and expensive con trick. \\\"24 hours to save the NHS?\\\" It\\\'s 100,000 hours since those immortal words were uttered, and we\\\'re still waiting.[/quote] Well my wife is a Nurse and see the results at the front line. Has no political bias and tells me that there has been much improvement in the last 10 years.
We always hear the bad stories, but never the good ones as they don\'t make good press. Millions are treated every day on the NHS with a vast majority happy with the service.
We do however need to look at more government funded car home for teh elderly as there are many beds taken up in a hospital by elderly patients that are well enough to go home, but still need care.
As for your wife not being able to see a GP at 6pm last night, maybe you should look at what teh Labour government are trying to proceed with in larger GP heath clinics that will have as part of its make up much longer opening times. These clinics are opposed by the Tories. [/quote] Spot on! Excellent post!!!!!!
As for Nigel & The Vicar, the NHS is one of the things that makes Britain GREAT BRITAIN!
If you don't like it, then leave, tell you what send me the invoice & I will pay for your plane ticket!
Gary wrote:
Nigel wrote:
MoanMoanMoan, If you like to think that the NHS has improved, that is your right. Labour thinks that if it spouts that message long and loud enough, people will believe it, and until Gordon Brown's disintegration, they did, but the scales have fallen from people's eyes (except yours) and they can now see that the past 11 years have been an elaborate and expensive con trick. \\\"24 hours to save the NHS?\\\" It's 100,000 hours since those immortal words were uttered, and we're still waiting.
Well my wife is a Nurse and see the results at the front line. Has no political bias and tells me that there has been much improvement in the last 10 years.
We always hear the bad stories, but never the good ones as they don\'t make good press. Millions are treated every day on the NHS with a vast majority happy with the service.
We do however need to look at more government funded car home for teh elderly as there are many beds taken up in a hospital by elderly patients that are well enough to go home, but still need care.
As for your wife not being able to see a GP at 6pm last night, maybe you should look at what teh Labour government are trying to proceed with in larger GP heath clinics that will have as part of its make up much longer opening times. These clinics are opposed by the Tories.
Spot on! Excellent post!!!!!!
As for Nigel & The Vicar, the NHS is one of the things that makes Britain GREAT BRITAIN!
If you don't like it, then leave, tell you what send me the invoice & I will pay for your plane ticket!
Posted by: bazman, Basildon on 8:57pm Fri 4 Jul 08
[quote][bold]ShipShape[/bold] wrote:
Snouts in the troughs, two legs good four bad and all that stuff, eh? With all the financial worries that people are having right now, I don't know how you grasping toads can look your constituants in the eye.[/quote] I for one will never ever vote again in this country for any of these sleaze ridden MPs. I think personally they are a bunch of disgusting self centred hippocrites hardly worthy of the positions they hold.
If I had to work away from home I would have to foot the bill myself. Dont ever let them knock on my door at election time asking for support, because the response they will receive will leave them speechless and walking down my path backwards!
Baz.
ShipShape wrote:
Snouts in the troughs, two legs good four bad and all that stuff, eh? With all the financial worries that people are having right now, I don't know how you grasping toads can look your constituants in the eye.
I for one will never ever vote again in this country for any of these sleaze ridden MPs. I think personally they are a bunch of disgusting self centred hippocrites hardly worthy of the positions they hold.
If I had to work away from home I would have to foot the bill myself. Dont ever let them knock on my door at election time asking for support, because the response they will receive will leave them speechless and walking down my path backwards!
Baz.
Posted by: Steven on 9:05pm Fri 4 Jul 08
Can no-one see the irony that this article is about the "John Lewis list" and at the side there is an advert for John Lewis? ---------------->
Can no-one see the irony that this article is about the "John Lewis list" and at the side there is an advert for John Lewis? ---------------->
Posted by: Mark D, Westcliff on 9:57pm Fri 4 Jul 08
At least my MP voted against the "John Lewis List" etc, so he can ask for my vote with a clear conscience on that. I must admit I am shocked that David Amess voted in favour of these obscene allowances.
I live in Westcliff & work in London, receiving a salary less than these allowances. Would those MPs who voted for their allowances be willing to tell my employers I require £24k so I can rent & furnish a home in London?
At least my MP voted against the "John Lewis List" etc, so he can ask for my vote with a clear conscience on that. I must admit I am shocked that David Amess voted in favour of these obscene allowances.
I live in Westcliff & work in London, receiving a salary less than these allowances. Would those MPs who voted for their allowances be willing to tell my employers I require £24k so I can rent & furnish a home in London?
Posted by: leftwinglooney, Basildon Central on 1:28am Sat 5 Jul 08
Nigel,
How do you sleep at night?
You know full well who it was that stated "The NHS is safe in our hands" Held up the multisheet computer paper of "All the new hospitals that have opened under the Tories" (Not one NHS, observers who were still awake noted) then went on to install a sleaze bound administration that removed the medical profession from NHS power, installed private contract cleaners and private nursing staff in many posts, closed wards, closed hospitals, demoralised the medical staff and introduced a standard of filth in our wards not seen since before Florence Nightingale! To blame labour for this (new or otherwise) just shows that you Tories have no limits to your lies. Now add the fact that your right wing investors moved all their money to foreign climes, sold of our assests, closed our mines (with over 300 years of coal now lost, probably forever), pushed industrial workers loyalty out of existence by making them a disposable commodity, allowed the "Borrowing" from pension funds that has destroyed the less well off's future retirement prospects and allowed advertising to be the main financier of every English activity, wasting all our income on non productive charges in every aspect of our lives (look how much of the UK capital goes on direct and indirect advertising) and you begin to see a little of why people chucked out the sleaze ridden Tories!
How very dare you!!
Nigel,
How do you sleep at night?
You know full well who it was that stated "The NHS is safe in our hands" Held up the multisheet computer paper of "All the new hospitals that have opened under the Tories" (Not one NHS, observers who were still awake noted) then went on to install a sleaze bound administration that removed the medical profession from NHS power, installed private contract cleaners and private nursing staff in many posts, closed wards, closed hospitals, demoralised the medical staff and introduced a standard of filth in our wards not seen since before Florence Nightingale! To blame labour for this (new or otherwise) just shows that you Tories have no limits to your lies. Now add the fact that your right wing investors moved all their money to foreign climes, sold of our assests, closed our mines (with over 300 years of coal now lost, probably forever), pushed industrial workers loyalty out of existence by making them a disposable commodity, allowed the "Borrowing" from pension funds that has destroyed the less well off's future retirement prospects and allowed advertising to be the main financier of every English activity, wasting all our income on non productive charges in every aspect of our lives (look how much of the UK capital goes on direct and indirect advertising) and you begin to see a little of why people chucked out the sleaze ridden Tories!
How very dare you!!
Posted by: Kim Gandy, Rayleigh on 1:53pm Sun 6 Jul 08
[quote]The House of Commons vote also killed off moves to subject their allowances to external audits following recent scandals.[/quote]
So the Freedom of Information Act doesn't cover them then?
This is like living in a perpetual nightmare where the lunatics are running the asylum on huge pay packets, fat pensions and perks.
Meanwhile the rest of us are subjugated, harasssed, spied on, bullied and taxed to the hilt.
George Orwell was THE BEST soothsayer who ever walked this earth.
The House of Commons vote also killed off moves to subject their allowances to external audits following recent scandals.
So the Freedom of Information Act doesn't cover them then?
This is like living in a perpetual nightmare where the lunatics are running the asylum on huge pay packets, fat pensions and perks.
Meanwhile the rest of us are subjugated, harasssed, spied on, bullied and taxed to the hilt.
George Orwell was THE BEST soothsayer who ever walked this earth.
Posted by: jayman, southend on 10:56pm Sun 6 Jul 08
(Ivory tower syndrome) They are up there looking down at us. no-one is immune from corruption. that's why they all work in a prestigious ornate building in the centre of London. We are all fools if we believe a single word they say.
(Ivory tower syndrome) They are up there looking down at us. no-one is immune from corruption. that's why they all work in a prestigious ornate building in the centre of London. We are all fools if we believe a single word they say.
Posted by: dave, West Australia on 5:02am Mon 7 Jul 08
i think the real problem lies in the fact that the UK has so many people paid under 24K that this payment is so offensive. the minimum wage is a disgrace to an advanced nation of such wealth. and then to have it effectively undercut by mass immigration of semi skilled young men leaves us foriegn onlookers breathless at the contempt with which the UK working person is being treated by an allegedly 'labour' government. the recent stories of migrant builders being paid a few pounds a day are NOT ended with... "the companies concerned have been suspended from trading and their directors arrested for questioning while all documents are seized to see exactly who needs to go to jail for a long time." and they bloody well should be.
Economics 101 tells us that economies need people to spend money. Blaming the lowest paid in society for inflation (evidenced by allowing their wages to be cut) is like private jet owners blaming cow farts for global warming. no cows=no milk/meat. no Lear jets=so what?
i think the real problem lies in the fact that the UK has so many people paid under 24K that this payment is so offensive. the minimum wage is a disgrace to an advanced nation of such wealth. and then to have it effectively undercut by mass immigration of semi skilled young men leaves us foriegn onlookers breathless at the contempt with which the UK working person is being treated by an allegedly 'labour' government. the recent stories of migrant builders being paid a few pounds a day are NOT ended with... "the companies concerned have been suspended from trading and their directors arrested for questioning while all documents are seized to see exactly who needs to go to jail for a long time." and they bloody well should be.
Economics 101 tells us that economies need people to spend money. Blaming the lowest paid in society for inflation (evidenced by allowing their wages to be cut) is like private jet owners blaming cow farts for global warming. no cows=no milk/meat. no Lear jets=so what?
Posted by: dave, West Australia on 5:16am Mon 7 Jul 08
when we travel to the UK for work the tax man here (in Oz) says we can claim 120 pounds a day in expenses without receipts. This does NOT include the amount we can claim for accomodation (which is around the same again, receipts required). if parliament sits for 200 days a year this (24k PA) expense will be the same though i will not have access to a kitchen. It is widely seen here as a bonus payment for being away from your home and family and is treated as such by employers as well as employees. It becomes a recognised part of a salary 'package'. this payment is worked out on a scale of 1-5 with 5 the being the most costly places on earth (norway & moscow =5), UK is 4. france and germany are 3. italy 2.
so,one of the most expensive places on earth has a minimum wage of a gallon of petrol per hour worked. and thats before TAX! which has just been INCREASED for the poorest by aboloshing the 10p rate! if you can, get out. if you can't ,strike.
when we travel to the UK for work the tax man here (in Oz) says we can claim 120 pounds a day in expenses without receipts. This does NOT include the amount we can claim for accomodation (which is around the same again, receipts required). if parliament sits for 200 days a year this (24k PA) expense will be the same though i will not have access to a kitchen. It is widely seen here as a bonus payment for being away from your home and family and is treated as such by employers as well as employees. It becomes a recognised part of a salary 'package'. this payment is worked out on a scale of 1-5 with 5 the being the most costly places on earth (norway & moscow =5), UK is 4. france and germany are 3. italy 2.
so,one of the most expensive places on earth has a minimum wage of a gallon of petrol per hour worked. and thats before TAX! which has just been INCREASED for the poorest by aboloshing the 10p rate! if you can, get out. if you can't ,strike.
Posted by: dave, West Australia on 9:25am Mon 7 Jul 08
for the record the Oz min wage buys Aussies 2.5 gallons of fuel today, 3 for casual work, down from 4+ gallons at Jan 2007.
(hardly any employers pay less than 1.5 x min wage in reality here in west oz)
Also don't make the mistake i did for some time and assume you don't have the skills/quals to get accepted. check their website and see for yourself http://www.uk.embass
y.gov.au/lhlh/Visas_
and_Migration.html
1 and 2 year working holiday visas are easy to get for people under 31. no skill required for acceptance. a good 'try before you buy' type of move that this reader recommends.I am not an agent or connected in ANY way to anyone who might profit from these statements, i just think people deserve a whole lot more than a gallon an hour for grafting.
for the record the Oz min wage buys Aussies 2.5 gallons of fuel today, 3 for casual work, down from 4+ gallons at Jan 2007.
(hardly any employers pay less than 1.5 x min wage in reality here in west oz)
Also don't make the mistake i did for some time and assume you don't have the skills/quals to get accepted. check their website and see for yourself http://www.uk.embass
y.gov.au/lhlh/Visas_
and_Migration.html
1 and 2 year working holiday visas are easy to get for people under 31. no skill required for acceptance. a good 'try before you buy' type of move that this reader recommends.I am not an agent or connected in ANY way to anyone who might profit from these statements, i just think people deserve a whole lot more than a gallon an hour for grafting.
Posted by: dave, canvey on 12:50pm Thu 10 Jul 08
WHY THE HELL SHOULD THEY EVEN HAVE A SECOND HOME, YET ALONE EXPENSES - WHAT'S WRONG WITH A TRAVELODGE??!!
THESE WASTERS DO NOT LIVE ON THE SAME PLANET AS THE REST OF US & MOST WOULD PROBABLY BE UN-EMPLOYABLE IN ANY OTHER FIELD
WHY THE HELL SHOULD THEY EVEN HAVE A SECOND HOME, YET ALONE EXPENSES - WHAT'S WRONG WITH A TRAVELODGE??!!
THESE WASTERS DO NOT LIVE ON THE SAME PLANET AS THE REST OF US & MOST WOULD PROBABLY BE UN-EMPLOYABLE IN ANY OTHER FIELD
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